2005 Brute Force 750 Turns over, No Fire - MudInMyBlood Forums
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post #1 of 17 Old 12-11-2018, 10:42 PM Thread Starter
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Angry 2005 Brute Force 750 Turns over, No Fire

2005 KVF750A. Her name is Tina. I find naming my machines helps to keep my patience with them.
The short of it: quad will crank just fine. Has spark. Carb is getting fuel and plenty of air. Will not fire on raw gas or carb cleaner.


History:
ATV belonged to dad before it came in to my possession a few months back. It was put away outside in the summer of 2016 with no cover. To the best of my knowledge it was running when it was parked. She was left with ethanol fuel in her. Well, hunting season 2017 rolled around and it was time to start it up again. Should start right up right? Noooo... TIME TO BREAK OUT THE STARTER FLUID! Not sure of the details of the events that ensued but the end result was an ATV that caught fire bad enough that a flaming air filter was removed and a fire extinguisher was sprayed down in to the intake. The cover was replaced and Tina sat until I was called to relieve dad of her this past summer.

Where my story begins:
Tina was pushed off of my trailer, cleaned with a low pressure wash (electric pressure washer) taking care not to get water in to anything sensitive and making sure it was dried thoroughly before being pushed in to a climate controlled garage. Upon inspection, there was no start. Dead battery. Pulling the pull start revealed that the pistons had seized. Air box was toasted but still intact. Carb was crusted and the valves on both sides were seized. A rebuild was found not to be possible after I disfigured one of the carb valves getting it unstuck. Oil was nasty but didn't appear to have anything in it out of the ordinary. Belt light was triggered but nothing wrong with the belt after removing the cover.

What I did:
-Replaced battery
-Replaced carburetor with a used ebay purchase
-Rebuilt said carb with a kit (needle, jet, seals, etc) blowing out the galleries with compressed air
-Poured seafoam first then marvel mystery oil in to the cylinders through the plug holes to soak for 3 days
-Removed belt cover and used front clutch to free the motor
-Replaced oil (twice now)
-Drained gas tank by pumping from the filler tube and NOT out of the pump
-Replaced plugs
-Replaced Air cleaner assembly with used ebay purchase
-Replaced carb boots on both motor side and air cleaner side
-Attempted a belt light reset unsuccessfully but I think I may have mistaken the "not tripped" for the "tripped" position.
-Refilled with straight gas
-Cranked the motor and tested that fuel is getting to the carb by pulling the fuel hose at the "T"
-Cranked motor with carb attached and shooting carb cleaner in to the intakes without the airbox on. No fire
-Tapped rollover sensor. Disconnected then reconnected and retried. No fire
-Checked fuses for continuity. All tested fine. Retest. No Fire
-Pulled fuse box and checked connections. Seemed clean. No corrosion. Hit connectors with air and dielectric grease and reinstalled. Retried. No fire
-Pulled plugs and grounded on block. Both have spark. spark tester with plugs installed showed same.
-Cranked with a spoonfull of gas down each carb. No fire

Cranks usually last anywhere between 10 and 30 seconds with 20-30 minutes in between attempts to allow starter to cool. Exhaust seems clear and thin white smoke comes out when cranking from there and up through the carb. Out of ideas here. Fuel, air, spark. Check check check. Just not sure if I'm getting enough of each. What should I do?

Thank you all for any help.

-C

Contemn
2005 KVF750A BONE STOCK
2005 TRX350TM
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-Vipe winch
-Pro Taper Bars
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post #2 of 17 Old 12-11-2018, 10:44 PM Thread Starter
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Did a pickup coil test with a multimeter but can't seem to get a reading when cranking. Shows OL. Not sure if that's because the quad isn't running or what but that's what I'm seeing.

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2005 KVF750A BONE STOCK
2005 TRX350TM
-ProCircuit T4
-Vipe winch
-Pro Taper Bars
-Back up lights
-Racked Light Bar
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post #3 of 17 Old 12-12-2018, 07:43 AM
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I bet the rings are seized.
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post #4 of 17 Old 12-12-2018, 08:18 AM
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All that and I didn't see where you checked or eliminated the buss connector...which is well known to cause issues like this in all 2005s. At least check it. Here's a video:


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post #5 of 17 Old 12-12-2018, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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Bummer... Will update.
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Contemn
2005 KVF750A BONE STOCK
2005 TRX350TM
-ProCircuit T4
-Vipe winch
-Pro Taper Bars
-Back up lights
-Racked Light Bar
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post #6 of 17 Old 12-12-2018, 10:41 PM Thread Starter
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Update after BUS fix - no fire

Good call on the bus connector. Soldered all connections following Tepco Cycle Repair videoreconneced everything on the harness after applying dielectric but still no fire.

More info:

ATV is being cranked without airbox attached giving brief shots of carb cleaner. Not sure if this makes a difference. To be noted: the carbs are pulling fuel under vacuum when I cover them by hand. Is there a possibility that the machine has jumped timing or maybe a chucked valve after the ether incident? Don't think that would make it not at least fire then die but still don't know.

Going to check compression tomorrow once I get a hold of a tester.

Don't think rings are seized btw. It's turning over like a champ and again, there's no metal in the oil as far as I can see.
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post #7 of 17 Old 12-13-2018, 08:33 AM
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Test the CPS(pulse coil). it has it's wires coming out front with the stator's and they ir the connector may be damaged. Also, take off the fuse box and flip ut over. Pull each connection and inspect for corrosion. Another known issue.

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post #8 of 17 Old 12-13-2018, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Contemn View Post
Did a pickup coil test with a multimeter but can't seem to get a reading when cranking. Shows OL. Not sure if that's because the quad isn't running or what but that's what I'm seeing.
Guess that means its time to pull the stator cover. Is there anything I should be careful of when removing it?

Contemn
2005 KVF750A BONE STOCK
2005 TRX350TM
-ProCircuit T4
-Vipe winch
-Pro Taper Bars
-Back up lights
-Racked Light Bar
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post #9 of 17 Old 12-13-2018, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
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Also... bonus photo of the "incident"
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Contemn
2005 KVF750A BONE STOCK
2005 TRX350TM
-ProCircuit T4
-Vipe winch
-Pro Taper Bars
-Back up lights
-Racked Light Bar
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post #10 of 17 Old 12-13-2018, 02:32 PM
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Oh no...That looks bad. Oh and the pulse coil is tested only with an ohm meter. The manual shows how to test it and what reading you should get.

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post #11 of 17 Old 12-13-2018, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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Successful Fire!

Don't know what possessed me to give it another shot but I repeated the same procedure described in an earlier post to start with covering the carbs and a shot of cleaner and just pinned the throttle while cranking. Quad fired and man... a whole mess of nasty oil burped out of the crank breather. I'm literally covered in a smatter of oil as I type this... Going to swap the filter and flush the oil again. Should I be concerned about that burp or is this what is typical of a brute like I've read on several other posts?
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post #12 of 17 Old 12-13-2018, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Contemn View Post
Don't know what possessed me to give it another shot but I repeated the same procedure described in an earlier post to start with covering the carbs and a shot of cleaner and just pinned the throttle while cranking. Quad fired and man... a whole mess of nasty oil burped out of the crank breather. I'm literally covered in a smatter of oil as I type this... Going to swap the filter and flush the oil again. Should I be concerned about that burp or is this what is typical of a brute like I've read on several other posts?
The vent tube just comes off the top of the case, makes a few bends and ports to the air box. I assume you changed the oil several times already so I have to assume what you got out was just some sitting in the vent. That vent is the only discharge point these have so all the blow-by come straight out it. The better your engine is...the less you will have.

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post #13 of 17 Old 12-18-2018, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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Changed oil and filter with fresh store bought to be on the safe side. Cruddy again (chocolate milk). Beginning to question the quality of the oil on my shelf. It's been sitting about a year but dang...

Still waiting on a compression tester that was apparently backordered after i purchased... Autozone has em, but not with the thread pitch I need. C'est la vie. Should be arriving tomorrow.

Haven't been able to recreate a fire condition. Will follow up after tester arrives.

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2005 KVF750A BONE STOCK
2005 TRX350TM
-ProCircuit T4
-Vipe winch
-Pro Taper Bars
-Back up lights
-Racked Light Bar
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post #14 of 17 Old 12-21-2018, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Holy Christmas ship times, batman. Compression tester reading about 25psi on both cylinders and holding. Manual says 170???? What in the world? I took the tester off and put a dab of oil down into the cylinder thinking I'm getting ring blow-by. No difference. Not the rings then? Maaaaybe valve seating?

Or I'm doing this totally wrong. Which is DEFINITELY a possibility.

Steps taken:
Plug caps off. 1 plug out. Dab of oil. Known-good tester in and seated firmly. Crank using electric starter with a fresh battery and tester holds at about 25 (on both cylinders after process is repeated on other side with plug still in opposite cylinder). I've read elsewhere that the vtwin has auto-compression-release? Would this affect the reading or wouldn't it start fall?

Notes:
-Manual says to allow engine to warm... can't do that since I'm working with a no-start.
-Says to remove plugs but to also ground them to engine. ??? I assume this is a safety precaution. I have a fire extinguisher handy soooo, step skipped.
-There is no gas getting out of the head gasket that I can see on either side.
-The airbox is removed. Carb still in place.
-Covering carb intake does not change results.

Valve clearance check or should I still do the pulse coil check before worrying any further?

Contemn
2005 KVF750A BONE STOCK
2005 TRX350TM
-ProCircuit T4
-Vipe winch
-Pro Taper Bars
-Back up lights
-Racked Light Bar
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post #15 of 17 Old 12-21-2018, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Contemn View Post
Holy Christmas ship times, batman. Compression tester reading about 25psi on both cylinders and holding. Manual says 170???? What in the world? I took the tester off and put a dab of oil down into the cylinder thinking I'm getting ring blow-by. No difference. Not the rings then? Maaaaybe valve seating?

Or I'm doing this totally wrong. Which is DEFINITELY a possibility.

Steps taken:
Plug caps off. 1 plug out. Dab of oil. Known-good tester in and seated firmly. Crank using electric starter with a fresh battery and tester holds at about 25 (on both cylinders after process is repeated on other side with plug still in opposite cylinder). I've read elsewhere that the vtwin has auto-compression-release? Would this affect the reading or wouldn't it start fall?

Notes:
-Manual says to allow engine to warm... can't do that since I'm working with a no-start.
-Says to remove plugs but to also ground them to engine. ??? I assume this is a safety precaution. I have a fire extinguisher handy soooo, step skipped.
-There is no gas getting out of the head gasket that I can see on either side.
-The airbox is removed. Carb still in place.
-Covering carb intake does not change results.

Valve clearance check or should I still do the pulse coil check before worrying any further?
Yours would be the first manual on a Kawasaki V-twin that said 170psi compression that I heard of. It should say between 36-66 (due to the comp releases). Assuming you could cranked it at about 380RPMs and you did hold the throttle wide open so it could get full air charges, then sense the oil made no difference you can assume it's valve related-either timing or seating. Check the lash and the timing.

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Last edited by NMKawierider; 12-21-2018 at 07:17 PM.
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